Donald Henry Kuehn

I had a uncle (actually he was my mother’s uncle) who used to take me along during his 2 week vacation when he went fishing in Minnesota. He was a veteran of both WWI and WWII (and had a license plate on his car to comemmorate it).

My father was in the landing force at Utah Beach on D-Day and “took one for the team” somewhere in Belgium during WWII, spent a month in the hospital and then went back to the 4th Infantry Division for the duration of the war.

Today, actually officially yesterday, is Veterans’ Day. To all of our classmates who served in Vietnam, or in service of our country in any capacity... thank you.

DK

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

As Nancy Novak Irwin knows

When Words Fail

Music Speaks

Nancy, we miss your voice.

A salute to the dreamers

and the creators,

those with the courage to share

the beauty of their souls

and the skill to paint

glorious pictures,

whatever their medium.

Stewart, count me in:

another classmate determined

to find a way to stay in touch...

(with greetings to Richard Zaitlen, Sharry Rugendorf Falcon, Larry Nelson,...

Alan A. Alop

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Calling for an “immediate end” to the recount in Florida, Donald J. Trump warned on Monday that it could set a dangerous precedent of the person with the most votes winning.

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said that those in favor of the recount had a “sick obsession with finding out which candidate got the most votes.”

“Democrats are going on and on about counting every last vote until they findout who got the most,” Trump said. “Since when does getting the most votes mean you win?”

Trump said that, if the recounts are allowed to proceed, “We could be looking at a very bad, very sad situation where to be considered legitimately elected you have to get more votes than the other candidate.”

Having just returned from the Armistice commemoration in Paris, Trump said that Florida’s recount has made America “the laughingstock of the world,” adding, “Putin told me they never do recounts in Russia.”

Stewart Myrent

​Alan, I'm sad to say that one or two paragraphs into your most recent post, I found myself thinking, "what is this - is this even possible?" & thinking, "of course, it's possible!"  But then I realized that I had been taken in by your "fake news", but absolutely hilarious!  You've brightened my day.

Ronald I. Zager

Hi guys and gals--it's been a while.  I've not been lurking, just not willing to get involved in some of the pettiness that seems to permeate this site.  Seems that (much like the current occupant of the oval office) some of us hear disagreement and take it to be a personal attack then have to hit back.  Not me!  Since losing the prom king/queen vote (sorry, Nancy, that you didn't win, but Pete and Donna were very deserving of the honor) I've decided to leave high school behind.

So on a positive note, I agree with Larry (#4596), Bev (#4597), and Nancy (#4605).  And Carol (#4612), even though I don't often agree with you on many issues I do agree that private conversations should remain private, and I promise to respect your privacy with anything you wish to share with me.

Now I'll publicly share some of my good news:  my daughter, Anne, graduated in August from Smith College with a MSW degree and now has (every parent's dream) a good job with benefits, my son, Bob (Yale MBA '13), got married in September up in Maine and lives just two hours from Anne in Cambridge, MA, and I attended my Knox College 50th reunion up in Galesburg, Il.  Holly Thompson (Nelson) was there with her current husband of some 50 years, Rich.  Mike Wynn (also in our NTHS-W '64 class) is a fellow Knox alum but did not attend the reunion.

How about the rest of you--any good college reunion stories you'd like to share?  Now that the election is over it might be refreshing to catch up on what is happening in our lives outside of the voting booth and away from D.C.

Happy Thanksgiving to all !

Ron

Paul Richard Hain

Alan, the young people who loath our country are not the Parkland kids.  They are the likes of Antifa smashing windows and burning things at U of California, Berkeley; attacking the Homeland Security Secretary Nielsen, Senator Cruz and his wife Heidi and Senator McConnell and his wife while they attempted to eat in peace at retstaurants.  And, a band of young people that wore hoods, protested in front of Tucker Carlson's home at night.  While he was gone, they yelled and screamed, pounded on his front door while Mrs. Carlson and their children huddled in an inner room.  When morning came, the Carlsons found their driveway had been spray painted with the Antifa symbol.  Is that okay with you?

How about protesters disrupting approved speeches at universities such as happened to Ben Shapiro and Ann Coulter.  Supposedly, that was done to prevent free speech.  This is not the kind of behavior that makes me proud of our youth or what is being taught to them. 

Steve, I wrote a reply to you at the time of Garland's appointment that the Senate should do its duty.  Now that you bring it up again, I looked at my copy of the Constitution and it does not say that the Senate must consider every apointee. 

I have not made any statement regarding Whitaker's appointment or statements defending the Trump topics you mention.  I'm not going to.

Ron, those are wonderful developments in the lives of your family. Fifty years since college graduation is very cool.  Dee and I went to my Alma Mater, Northern Illinois University Homecoming game against Akron to celebrate my 50th.  Had a good time talking to undergrads working at a restaurant about the place 50 years ago!

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

We have yet to hold Trump accountable for his abuse of and inhumanity to American troops and for his irresponsible and inhumane behavior toward American citizens, the American press, our American allies, and the world at large.

All of the violence in the U.S. is wrong-- sadly there’s much more violence in the U.S. than in any civilized country...

The behavior of the NRA and what it fosters and models for our youth does not make me proud-- it chills me to the bone.

Are you okay with the NRA, Paul?

That we abide gun violence is barbaric.

Paul, none of the victims you cited faced gunfire or died.

Stewart Myrent

​Paul, you said, "the young people who loath(Sic) our country...", "are the likes of Antifa smashing windows and burning things at U of California, Berkeley" and attacking administration officials, while they are attempting " to eat in peace at restaurants."  And then there was the story of Tucker Carlson's family, huddled in terror.  You asked, "Is that okay with you?"  I have to say that No - that's not okay with me.  Any time that any citizen takes the law into their own hands, and decides that they are above the law, or have total disregard for the laws of this land, I have to say "No - that's not okay with me."  Then you mentioned "protesters disrupting approved speeches at universities", e.g. Ben Shapiro & Ann Coulter.  (I did read one of Ann Coulter's books once - don't remember the title - it was hilarious.)  However, there is that little issue of First Amendment rights (free speech).  But, I'm not really sure if you take your Consitutional rights, as seriously as I do.  It's not that I think the the Constitution is perfect (far from it - the first thing I would do, would be get rid of the Electoral College).  I would have no problem having a new Constitutional convention, because our present Constitution is somewhat archaic.  (Come on, these Founding Fathers could never foresee semi-automatic weapons, or anything else in our current society.)  One other thing, Paul, Janis said "Paul, none of those victims you cited faced gunfire or died."  I agree with Janis, nobody died, or faced serious injury, but, more importantly, the total number of persons involved in all of the incidents you mentioned, probably number in the dozens.  I am actually more concerned about Congress messing with Medicare & Social Security (whatever happened to Al Gore's "lockbox", to protect S.S. & Medicare?), with the fact that our citizens can be killed anywhere (all they have to do is be in 'the wrong place at the wrong time') at any time, and our reluctance to accept immigrants into our culture (despite the fact that our country has ALWAYS benefitted from waves of immigration - I want you to think of your grandparents now, perhaps great-grandparents), and many other things on my agenda.  These are things that affect millions of people, not dozens.  One other thing, those administration officials, who just can't have a quiet meal with their loved ones, out in public - I don't believe that any of them were seriously, or even minorly, hurt or harmed, in any way, except by embarassment.

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Paul, it would be good for you to engage/ respond directly in dialogue you put out on the Forum.  Efforts to bridge the chasm that separates us necessitate respectful discussion.  It's essential that we be prepared for the process to be difficult, even painful-- we can expect to see others' positions, and they ours', as a reflection of character.  Though confrontation can "hurt"... we have the opportunity to learn and in the end enhance our understanding.  As lifelong learners who’ve been in school together this isn't new to us.

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

The clock is ticking... now is open enrollments for Affordable Care Act coverage.  

for most states the deadline is December 15th.

Go to 

Healthcare.gov

Paul Richard Hain

Stewart, you are definitely thoughtful about our country. You questioned whether I take the First Amendment seriously. I assure you that I do! The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech.  It does not condone harassment and disruptive, threatening or violent behavior.

 Speakers at universities, like Coulter and Shapiro are part of the free speech process.  They were invited there to debate and discuss. All sides could participate. But, the protestors prevented their free speech and of those who came to debate them.  Throwing objects at the speakers and totally disrupting a university sanctioned presentation is not exercising your free speech.  It is anti-free speech. What they did was intimidation, assault and perhaps, battery.  

Nor is it free speech to scream at people sitting at a table having dinner whether they are a politician or not.  Had the protestors been outside protesting, that would be free speech.  But, if you invade somebody’s personal space and disrupt all the diners in a restaurant, it’s not free speech: it’s assault.  That is the difference between anarchy and civil society. 

It is easy to dismiss the Constitution as old and not relevant.  There is way more to know about it before dismissing the parts you don’t like, or suggesting it needs to be replaced.  I suspect there is a lot more for you to learn about why the Electoral College exists and the Second Amendment.  Don’t take my word for it.  Look into all sides of the argument before forming a conclusion.

Here is an insight about what our young people know about our Constitution.  I am an elected official, supervisor of the township when I live.  We had a township trustee meeting last night.  We sponsor two high school Junior Trustees that serve a two-year term learning about local government and then get a $1,000 scholarship from us.  We have a vacancy in one position.  The trustees asked me (retired educator) to go and talk to the high school government teacher and a class and see if I can find a recruit.

Later, I asked a few questions of our current Junior Trustee, who is a senior, AP student, National Honor Society and all-around good athlete and good person.  I kind of expected what I heard.  There is no government class.  It is mentioned briefly in US History as a Junior.  There is no instruction on either the US or state constitutions.  There is no Constitution test to graduate as a senior.  And, no Constitution test in eighth grade, either.  (These requirements to graduate have been removed from the curriculum).   

On his own, he has been reading about township and state law.  He gives us a report on what he learns each month.  He was embarrassed enough about not understanding national and state politics that he has been reading to fill in the gaps about what he was not taught.  He said he was currently reading the “Federalist Papers.”  Quite a young man to be doing that on his own!  A real exception to the rule.  His peers remain uneducated by the high school (which ranks in the upper 15 % of Illinois high schools). Graduates enter society without a clue how their government works unless they looked into it themselves.  This is a national problem.  This should be a concern for us all.  What’s to become of our country if all we have is an uneducated, uninformed electorate?  I know, most of you think that describes me for supporting Trump!  I get it. Seriously though, don’t we want to make sure our children and grandchildren are instructed about our country and government? 

Hey, your gray-haired activists!  Find out what the curriculum is at your local high school.  Go to school board meetings. (Your presence will be enough to shake up the average school board). Speak during the Public Comment section of the agenda.  Make your opinions known.  Run for the school board.  You are paying the bill.  Why not influence what is taught?

  Janis, I am not disparaging the Parkland young people or their cause, or minimizing the loss of life.  Their free speech rights are protected, as are yours, mine, Coulter’s or Shapiro’s.  We are all equal that way. 

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Paul, you did not answer the question I asked you: Are you okay with the behavior of the NRA and what it fosters and models for our youth?  

There is a lot of anarchy in our country:

Gun violence in the U.S. is growing exponentially.

Congress’s refusal to perform it’s Constitutional responsibility of oversight of a runaway Executive is anarchy.

Voter suppression and refusal to count votes is anarchy.

Minority “ruling" in America could well lead to anarchy.

You continue to make your opinions known and admonish there is a lot more to understand about the Electoral College and the Second Amendment before forming conclusions.

What’s to become of our young people and our country when citizens refuse to heed the scourge of gun violence in America?  makes me seriously question the insight / wisdom / character of a minority of Americans.

**Proud Trump supporters might take a look at “Checks and Balances” - a coalition of conservative lawyers organized to preserve Constitutional Principles that are being undermined by Trump’s statements and actions.

Yes, I agree there should be instruction on the US and state constitutions and required test on the US Constitution with passing grade to advance to and to graduate from high school.  Public schools were created to prepare us to be informed citizens with the ability to exercise our rights and responsibilities. 

***FOX has become a propaganda arm of the Trump administration and a de facto part of the government - that makes FOX Trump promoters (some have been on stage at Trump rallies with Trump) targets for protest.

Paul Richard Hain

Janis, yes I support the NRA, and have been a member most of my life.  Their youth programs teach marksmanship, gun safety and responsible citizenship. There were three boys in my family.  My Dad did not own firearms prior to signing us up for training.  I went to the NRA Civilian Marksmanshp Program (CMP) all through high school.  I learned to shoot a variety of military surplus firearms and how to compete.  It was great fun.  The NRA today runs good programs for youth.  They all emphasize safety and responsibility.  So, yes, I believe the NRA is good for young people.

Back in the day when I was in the CMP, it met at an outdoor range in Waukegan.  The instructors were drill sergeants from Great Lakes Naval Base and Fort Sheridan.  They volunteered their time.  They were sticklers with all aspects of firearm use.  One of the not so good things I learned was some colorful language!  All of us loved learning with the NRA.

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Back in the day the NRA was not political... that’s a far cry from the political tool the NRA has become for the firearms industry today opposing any form of reasonable regulation even as suggested by Justice Scalia in his opinion establishing an individual’s right to bear arms under the second amendment.  

Thanks to any and all who respond to my question: Are you okay with the behavior of the NRA and what it fosters and models for our youth?

Who believes the Dangerous Myth of Good Guys With Guns?

Paul’s answer does not pertain to the focus of my question and/or the issue at hand.  

We need to be more open to listening and learning from our young students and families who understandably are deeply concerned about the unbridled gun violence that daily tears apart the life of our nation and casts a very dark shadow over our country’s future.

Paul Richard Hain

Janis,  I would not belong to the NRA if I did not support what it stands for and its influence on our youth. Its activities are as wholesome and constructive now as they were in my youth.  So, to answer your question, yes I support them.

You are correct that years ago there was very little political discussion by the NRA or in its publications.  That was a long time ago.  But, then again, there was not the attack on firearms that there is today. The NRA rose to the occasion.  I know a lot of firearm owners from across the political spectrum that are law-abiding and just want to have their rights untouched.  The NRA is their voice.

The debate about firearmss will go on far into the future.  The NRA is a big political contender that stepped up to preserve the Second Amendment rights of our citizens. That is hard for some, including yourself to accept. As I have said, I do not wish to debate. Both you and I are entitled to our opinions and can get along only, only if there is mutual respect. ✊ I have no problem with that.

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Open debate and a search for the common good -

  - C O M P R O M I S E -

makes our government work.

Paul, if you open your eyes and heart,

there’s a lot for you to see and learn.

I wonder how a person who was given a second chance at life

lacks the desire and the will to protect life...

**doesn’t do everything he can to protect life...

Marvin Irving Blusteln

The current government norm appears to be power without principle.   

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Let them all jump on me -

for all the times you’ve departed the Forum,

you can’t stop yourself from checking in & posting.

The issue at hand is way more serious than opinion and politics.

Gun safety is a matter of life and death

and the general welfare of our country.

If ever there was a condescending classmate, it’s Paul - 

telling us all how he’s steeped in the Constitution and the Federalist Papers

and of his vast expertise as an educator and school superintendent.  

You, you’re the ever present phantom of nileswest64...

We should be listening and learning from one another and our young.  Shame on us all if we vote blindly perhaps for decades to come.

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

27  NRA  backed candidates lost thanks to the Parkland survivors.

“Young people are sick and tired of going to funerals of their friends.”  

The attitudes of youth have begun to shift from fear to hope for the future.  After the Parkland massacre on February 14th, a “traumatized generation” became an “energized generation” which will shape more demand for gun safety legislation.  

Change doesn’t happen in a day or with a single race.  Change takes time; it will take more than one election run at full speed to make a change.  Parkland survivors did not meet their goal in 2018 - they know they have to persevere to break through with gun reform.

Paul Richard Hain

Janis,  what you have said about me does not define who I am.  You could be no further from the truth.  All I can say is that your words say more about you than they do of me.  I can put this unfortunate episode is in my rear-view mirror.  I'm ready to move on with the suggestions that Larry and Ron have made about what to post.  Please, join me.

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Paul, unless you have lost the forest for the trees, surely you jest or think me an idiot... all your pie in the sky about the goodness of the NRA... trying to bamboozle me with the one not so good thing you learned was some colorful language...

Spare me the Dangerous Myth of Good Guys With Guns.

Get real.  Wake up and smell the coffee - I hope I caught your attention - gun violence in the U.S. is growing exponentially - Americans are being slaughtered in places they should be safe.  Living in a police state is not the answer.

Why not work as hard to influence the NRA to work for reasonable gun regulation as you do to convince your classmates that the NRA is a benevolent organization?  Why not do everything you can to protect life? 

I wonder how a person who was given a second chance at life

**doesn’t do everything he can to protect life.**

Janis

Stewart Myrent

​First of all, Janis - loved the nativity scene poster.  And Paul, like Trump, you are wearing me out!  I was going to post last night, after I got home from work, but I just lacked the vim I had as a younger man.  First of all Paul, your remark that "I suspect that there is a lot more for you to learn about why the Electoral College exists and the Second Amendment.", was a little condescending, although I will admit that I am not a recognized constitutional scholar, but have no knowledge that you are, either.  First of all why did they create the Electoral College?  You know this, as well as I,  that the first purpose was to create a buffer between the population and the selection of a President.  (You can't really trust those uneducated, common folk.)  The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency, as they feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power.  Also, the Electoral College gave extra power to the smaller states.  As for the Second Amendment, the reason for it was to create "A well-regulated militia , being necessary to the security of a free State, (the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed) [parentheses mine].  The parenthetical statement is the whole 'raison d'etre' of the NRA.  Paul, I have to say that I was touched by your misty-eyed memories of NRA camp.  Although, I personally thought that the 'colorful language' you heard from the D.I.s, was possibly the most valuable thing you learned.  As I mentioned in a post about a wwek ago, the last time I fired a weapon was 50 years ago, and somehow have made it to 71, without ever owning a firearm.  So, I am curious, Paul, about that training all those years ago at NRA camp, as to what it prepared you for.  I get the stuff about safety & all that, but, for instance, do you hunt?  Do you do target shooting?  I mean, for what specific purpose, would you own a firearm?  One more thing, relative to the First Amendment.  I was not aware at the university functions that the protesters "throwing objects at speakers", but, I obviously find that reprehensible, and I agree behavior like that is NOT sanctioned by the First Amendment.  The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the PRESS (caps mine); or the right of the people peacably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  I bring up the freedom of the press, after federal judge, Timothy Kelly, ordered the White House to get CNN's Jim Acosta's press credential returned.  Sarah Huckabee Sanders stated they will temporarily reinstate Acosta's  hard pass, but added, "There must be decorum at the White House."  You've got to be kidding!  This is after the WH was caught doctoring video of Acosta's interaction with a WH aide.  Getting back to the free speech, Paul, you said, "nor is it free speech to scream at people sitting at a table having dinner whether they are a politician or not."  Later, you stated, "It's assault."  I think your 'assault' position is a little weak, but my feeling is that if more citizens had the fortune to run into these administration characters, they might never try to eat out again.  You should be willing & able to stand up for what your convictions & policies are & proud to defend your policies, if you really believe they're right.  NONE of those people were hurt or injured, in any way.  Again, I'm more concerned about millions of people, instead of dozens, aren't you?  Finally, you stated that it's "easy to dismiss the Constitution as old and not relevant."  Seriously?  What else is 230 years old, that you wouldn't dismiss as old?  Polls since 1967 (for past 50+ years) have shown that a majority of Americans favor the President & Vice-President being elected by the nationwide popular vote, instead of by the Electoral College.  People talk about the Constitution in the same way they discuss Moses getting the 10 Commandments directly from God on Mt. Sinai.  The founding fathers, as smart as they were, as educated & as brave, could never foresee our country, as it is today.  You never mentioned, Paul, what you thought of my idea of having a new, Constitutional convention to sort of overhaul the old girl.  One final thing (but I am catching up with you for several days), although I agree that our younger citizens don't know about the Constitution, I'm not sure that you (retired educator) should be the one I would want teaching them about it, as it is obvious you have a conservative (Federalist Society) viewpoint.  I would prefer they learn about the Constitution w/o the conservative bias.  Oh, by the way, despite the fact that I am not a Constitutional scholar, I remember I passed my Constitution test to advance from grade school to high school & I seem to remember passing one to graduate H.S., also.  Nice talking with you.

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

Stewart, I wonder why ever, wherever for way too long you were lurking... you are a gentle welcome insighful voice on the Forum - your contributions are “priceless”.

Bonjour to you and all.

Thanksgiving is fast approaching. Janis

Janis Kliphardt (Emery)

As it always has been, the Forum is here for all - a medley of Niles West ’64 voices.

Why not all do everything we can to secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity?